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Contents: Keynotes, Panels, Sessions

March 10, 2005

High Level Committee II

Moderator
H.E. Martii Ahtisaari, Former President of Finland and Club de Madrid member
Participants

  • France, H.E. Minister of Foreign Affairs Michel Barnier
  • People’s Republic of China, H.E. Former Vice-Prime Minister Qian Qichen
  • Republic of Cyprus, H.E. Minister of Foreign Affairs Georgios Iacovou
  • Republic of Ecuador, H.E. Minister of Foreign Affairs Patricio Zuquilanda
  • Republic of Slovenia, H.E. Minister of Defence Karel Erjavec
  • Greece, H.E. Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis
  • Republic of Ireland, H.E. Minister of Social and Family Affairs Seamus Brennan
  • State of Israel, H.E. First Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres
  • Mexico, H.E. Attorney General Rafael Macedo de la Concha
  • Islamic Republic of Pakistan, H.E. Minister of Parliamentary Affairs Sher Afgan Khan Niazi

Audio


Complete audio of the conference

Transcription / Transcripción


Note: […] Means not audible or missing content from the original tapes because of the recording
Nota: […] Significa no audible o que falta contenido en la cinta original debido a la grabación

Moderator. H.E. Martii Ahtisaari
...distinguished speakers here today, so I know we are pressed with the time, so I appeal to you please. Once again please take your seats and I would like to hand over the microphone to the first speaker who is the Secretary of State for Victim Rights, Madam [...].

[?]
Le monde entier s’est donné rendez-vous à Madrid cette semaine pour dire son indignation et sa volonté d’agir résolument contre le terrorisme. Qu’il me soit permis au nom du gouvernement français de dire combien nos concitoyens sont solidaires de la souffrance du peuple espagnol mais également de toutes les victimes touchées par le terrorisme à travers le monde. La France s’est associée dès les premières heures avec l’ensemble des peuples de l’Union Européenne au deuil de la nation espagnole. Notre Premier ministre, Jean-Pierre Raffarin était lui-même présent le 12 Mars 2004 à Madrid, pour participer au nom du gouvernement français à la marche de solidarité pour les victimes du terrorisme. Le même jour à la demande du Président de la République Jacques Chirac des drapeaux ont été mis en berne sur tous les édifices publiques. Nos pays sont en effet frères dans la prospérité comme dans le malheur.

La France a elle-même était la cible d’actes ignobles et lâches au cours des années 80 et 90. Nous connaissons, pour l’avoir ressenti dans notre chair, le prix du sang, de la souffrance et de l’horreur. Une de nos compatriotes était d’ailleurs au nombre des victimes des attentats madrilènes. Nos pays sont aussi frères dans la lutte, et je me félicite que ce que nos démocraties accroissent au quotidien, leur capacité de combat commun contre cette stratégie des lâches que constitue le terrorisme. La constitution européenne qui je l’espère sera adoptée prochainement, contient d’ailleurs une close de solidarité entre états européens en cas d’actes terroristes. S’il est essentiel que le gouvernement agisse et qu’il face front uni pour protéger au mieux nos concitoyens contre ces nouvelles menaces, il faut également qu’il prenne conscience de l’importance particulière qu’il convient de donner aux victimes.

A cet égard, je souhaite insister sur deux points, le premier c’est le devoir d’aide, de soutien et d’indemnisation des victimes, il faut en effet prévoir dans nos législations une assistance médicale, psychologique, sociale et matérielle à [...] aux victimes d’actes de terrorisme. Le Secrétariat d’État au Droit des Victimes, crée en France en avril 2004, a précisément pour objectif d’améliorer et de rationaliser les dispositifs existants en la matière. Il est aussi une force de proposition et d’écoute au service de toutes les victimes notamment celles du terrorisme. Chargé moi-même de ce secrétariat d’état au droit d’aide aux victimes, je m’emploie effectivement à ce que dans notre pays comme également dans l’Union Européenne nous puissions ensemble élaborer : législation, dispositif d’aide et dispositif d’indemnisation commun. J’ajoute qu’il faut prévoir une indemnisation par état de ces personnes et de leur famille. La France a mis en place un système de fond de garantie à la demande notamment de l’association de victimes SOS Attentats qui fonctionne depuis plus de 10 ans en France. Le second impératif c’est le devoir de mémoire, demain se tiendront à Madrid deux cérémonies en hommage aux victimes et à leur mémoire. Il est de notre responsabilité de gouvernants, demain comme aujourd’hui, de continuer à entendre le murmure des victimes qui demandent justice. Le terrorisme n’a rien de romantique, il n’a rien de délicieusement révolutionnaire, le terrorisme tue, aveugle, il rend sourd, il mutile, il vise indifféremment journalistes, élus ou simples citoyens réunis en la même Europe. Il plonge nos frères, nos enfants, nos amis dans la douleur et l’effroi, dans la tristesse et dans l’incompréhension. Nous avons le devoir de ne jamais oublier. Je vous remercie.

Moderator
Thank you for your statement. The next speaker is his Excellency, former Vice Premier Qian Qi Chen from the People’s Republic of China.

Qian Qi Chen
Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am honoured to be here in Madrid, a beautiful and historical city. I thank you very much for your warm recognition. I also wish to thank the host for the thoughtful arrangements and the gracious hospitality. This is my first time at the Summit and I’m glad to meet old and new friends here. Meanwhile, I have also come to Madrid with a heavy heart as I recall the worst terrorist attack here one year ago. I want to, once again, express my deep condolences to the victims in this tragedy.

Mr President, five years into the 21st century, the international situation is still undergoing great changes. Peace and development remain the key themes of our times. World economy is developing fast, however, [...] are also increasing. We are still facing many known traditional and non-traditional security threats. Terrorist activities, in particular, strike hard and wide. The terrorist activities, such as the terrorist incident in Saudi Arabia, explosion in Indonesia, the hostage incident in Russia, September 11 in the United States and March 11 in Spain, have killed many innocent lives and caused huge economic losses. Terrorism has become one of the top three [...] world peace and security.

Mr President, in recent years, the international community has carried out fruitful cooperation in the fight against terrorism, including closer [...], intelligence sharing and freezing the reserves of terrorist organisations. However, it remains a long and hard journey for the world to effectively revenge and fight against terrorism. This summit offers an important opportunity for stronger international cooperation in counter terrorism. I now wish to share with you some of my thoughts in this regard.

First, to enhance international cooperation, to cope with terrorist threats as globalisation further develops. Countries now find more interest in common and interrelated… global challenges such as terrorism must be addressed through global coordination. To ensure more effective global coordination, it is important to make international relations, more domestically and more [...]. It is also important to help developing countries with capacity building in the area of counter terrorism.

Second, it is important to address the root causes. There are deep and complex causes for terrorism, poverty tends to bring about social injustice. [...] that gives rise to regional turmoil. This could be easily exploited by terrorism groups. We need to make greater efforts to reduce poverty and properly address regional conflicts. This, I believe, could help remove the root causes of terrorism.

Third, to promote cooperation among countries and ensure the central role of the United Nations. The UN is the most universal representative and authoritative international organisation. It is also an important [...] for cooperation among all countries to achieve a win-win result for all. The UN’s counter terrorism efforts, particularly those of the Security Council, play a leading role in intensifying and coordinating the global comprehending of terrorism.

This year marks the sixtieth anniversary of the UN. All counties have agreed expectations on the UN reform. They hope that it can make the world body more efficient and effective in coping with various new threats, terrorism included. I hope the discussions of the High-Level Panel report will be productive.

Fourth, to promote dialogue amongst civilisations and to strengthen exchanges and communication. We live in a world of diversity. In fact, countries do differ in culture and religion. Such differences should be seen as the driving force for mutual learning in order to achieve common progress. We disapprove of linking terrorism with any particular country, as a group or religion. [...] of a dialogue among cultures and civilisations was adopted at the Asian Summit last year. It emphasised respect for diversity of civilisations. It also called for dialogue, dialogues and exchanges among civilisation as a way of promoting future understanding and the harmonious coexistence that is of all peoples. I believe this is highly relevant for better international cooperation against terrorism.

Mr President, China has also suffered a lot from terrorism. Last June, eleven Chinese citizens were murdered by terrorists in Afghanistan. [...] and terrorist force pose great threats to the stability and security in China and Central Asia. Hereby I wish to refer that China firmly condemns all terrorism of all forms. We are committed to strike harder on terrorism on all fronts and hope to prevent terrorist incidents through a series of measures and legislation at the Asian [...]. China is an active member in the international anti-terrorism cooperation and is supportive of the UN’s leading role in this regard. We also [...] natural cooperation with the relevant countries in fighting poverty. China is ready to work with the international community, Spain included, to push for new progress in the international campaign of terrorism. Thank you Mr President.

Moderator
Thank you speaker. I call the Foreign Minister of the Republic of Cyprus, Georgios Iacovou.

Georgios Iacovou
Thank you Chairman. It is, of course, natural that we grieve on anniversaries of major catastrophes and catastrophes that involve the loss of human life and, particularly, when these are man-made and, more specifically, out of terrorist activity. However, I think the emphasis on major terrorist attacks seems to be detracting from the whole of terrorist activity. I think to some extent, 11 September, because of its enormous size, has tended to focus on a theory of globalised terror, and of course, it is easier to galvanise public opinion when you can point the finger at one organisation and perhaps at one individual. But I think this has serious policy implications because the assumption that terrorism is centrally controlled would imply that the responsibility for the combat of terrorism is in the hands of either the major powers, or the major power, or perhaps the United Nations, and not the concern of the nation state or even civil society.

In fact, large organisations have serious problems in their survival because they have to depend on networks, networks of information, networks for transferring money and they are extremely vulnerable. The most efficient terrorist is the one that works on his own, doesn’t have friends, never shares information, doesn’t have a boss and uses a mobile telephone and therefore his activity cannot be monitored. This is how we must have a series of alternative policies looking at the global issues, but, at the same time, each state must have an anti-terrorist policy with its police, with its information-gathering, military intelligence, civil intelligence, and I think this is enormously important.

Another unfortunate consequence of the globalised attitudes to terrorism is the focusing on Islam because the minute you are talking about al-Qaida, you are, in effect, suggesting that perhaps the evil emanates because of some religious concern or emanating from certain religion, or certain parts of religion. I think this is completely unjustified.

Over the last twenty years, we have seen terrorists change and I think this is often neglected. In the sixties, seventies and eighties, the terrorist had a specific political agenda and therefore they were prepared to negotiate. When you were the subject or interest of terrorist [...], they had a specific demand and they were prepared to negotiate and make concessions once they got what they demanded. I think these days… what was the demand of the 11th September, or the Madrid atrocity? There were no specific demands, there was no specific political agenda. The new challenge from twenty years ago is the fact that terrorists are now prepared to die, they are prepared to kill and they are prepared to die. Otherwise you analyse specific terrorist activity, for instance, hijacking three or four aircraft is not the first time. We had four aircraft being hijacked in [...] and there were… once it had been negotiated, they blew the aircraft up and escaped. The difference with 11th September is that those people went out to kill, they went out to die, and I think we need to research this a lot so that we can better appreciate the reasons behind it. Thank you.

Moderator
Thank you. I now give the floor to the Minister for Foreign Affairs [...]

He doesn’t seem to want to be willing to use his right to speak. I will go further in my list of speakers and the next speaker is the Minister of Defence, Karel Erjavec, from the Republic of Slovenia.

Karl Viktor Erjavec
[...] Thank you Mr Chairman. The shocking terrorist act a year ago here in Madrid and the continued attacks on an almost daily basis in the global security of [...] has strengthened us in an understanding that terrorism is a global deed and that our reaction must be global. [...] confrontation with the terrorists, we need to [...] with our perception and activities. We need to understand the root and the causes of terrorism and [...] social and economic dimension. To confront it we need to strengthen political intelligence and military, financial and legal activities [...] as a response to the [...] with full respect for law and human rights. Many international organisations have taken the issue of terrorism as the very top of its agenda. [...] organisations like United Nations and NATO [...] have a solid action ground to fight the terror, but what we need as well are coordinated [...] with these organisations. Mr President, it will be a difficult approach but we have work on a long-term resolution. Slovenia supports the determination of the international community to implement [...] or to use global strategy and we see this Summit as an important contribution towards [...]. We hope it’s not only to the victims of the terrorism but to the [...] as well. Thank you Mr President.

Moderator
Thank you very much. The next speaker is the Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis of Greece.

Kostas Karamanlis
Thank you, Mr President. There is an emergence today as a major threat to the security of the world, affecting all aspects of our society and endangering the values of our civilisation. A striking example of what horrible crimes that terrorist activists can commit [...] religious or national convictions, were the violent strikes that took place in Madrid exactly one year ago taking the lives of close to two hundred innocent civilians. My country [...], having suffered from terrorism as well, are in a position to understand the pain inflicted upon the families of the victims and we fully sympathise with them.

Greece strongly condemns all terrorist acts as criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, forms or manifestations. Any cause, however just, cannot serve as an alibi for terrorist activities. We are determined to thoroughly continue our fight against all such actions and to closely cooperate with our friends and allies on an international level in the context of internationa legality in the preservation, of course, of human rights in order to eliminate this [...] from our societies and from the world.

Our country is gratified, as well, in the international Convention of Terrorism and remains fully committed to the implementation of the Security Council resolutions. And we welcome the adoption of the Security Council resolution [...] urging all states to adopt appropriate laws in order to prohibit non-state [...] from possessing, manufacturing and transporting weapons of mass destruction. We also fully support the implementation of international convention for the suppression of financing of terrorism. It is our firm belief that where democracy takes roots, terrorism cannot flourish for its main ideas are contrary to the core principles of the free democratic state which are tolerance and respect for different ideas and cultures. So the total elimination of terrorism will remain a [...] in our modern and democratic societies as long as this appalling phenomenon exists.

Democratic societies are certainly in a position to reliably fight it through counter terrorism activities compatible [...] international law, including international human rights and humanitarian law. In Greece we have taken all the steps necessary in order to incorporate international conventions and directives into the Greek corpus. The protection of human life, of our citizens’ safety, of paramount importance for us and, of course, our first priority, and I will not make compromise on that. Moreover, the appropriate coordination mechanism within the legislative and the executive branch of the government have been established in order to enforce the laws and combat terrorism. An example of the [...] was the safe celebration of the 28th Olympic Games of Athens in the summer of 2004. It was the biggest international sports event after the September 11th abhorrent terrorist strike. The effective measures Greece took, along with the cooperation provided by the international community, resulted in the Games being held in a safe environment with full respect for the Olympic principles, while not restricting the human rights and civil liberties of Greek and foreign civilians alike.

Unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen, nowadays terrorism and organised crime has a global reach, rendering cooperation among states absolutely necessary in order to confront it in a concerted and effective manner. It is in this spirit, invariably, that both regional and international cooperation be promoted. In the framework of the European Union, an anti-terrorist and comprehensive action plan has been adopted. We are staunch supporters of both its spirit and strict application. Our efforts to achieve a consensus in the UN on a comprehensive definition of the concept of terrorism have been intensified. Closing, I do hope that the stimulating discussions and the fruitful exchange of ideas that have taken place will, on the one hand, significantly contribute to further exploring the international causes and to combating international terrorism and, on the other hand, to spreading democracy with respect to human rights. It is our firm belief that these two aspirations are not only compatible, but also mutually reinforcing. Thank you

Moderator
Thank you. I now give the floor to the Minister of Social and Family Affairs Seamus Brennan from the Republic of Ireland.

Seamus Brennan
Thank you Mr President. Mr President, terrorism doesn’t recognise any boundaries at all, whether they are geographic, religious, or political, and, as we all know, it tries to create international instability and for that reason, obviously, international cooperation is absolutely at the centre of combating terrorism. For that reason I’d like to [...] Madrid for coming together at this time on such an important issue. It’s also, I think, worth recalling that after the March 11th tragedy, it did fall to my own country, Ireland, as the holder of the EU Presidency, to coordinate the Union’s response to the Madrid bombing. The result of that was the strategic declaration on combating terrorism and the detailed EU plan of action.

This detailed EU response dealt with everything such as the sharing of intelligence, the financing of terrorism, the protection of transport and population, the assistance to the victims and international cooperation, in particular the United States and its partners. Mr President, terrorism, I don’t think, will ever be stopped by a series of spectacular initiatives but by patience and, I suppose, frequently [...], it’s the quiet victories that we must all win, counting the attacks that are not carried out, the finances that have not been supplied and the terrorist cells that have been identified and broken up.

If I could, Mr President, I would like to say that in Ireland we have had our share of terrorism on the island for many, many years as this audience will know. We’ve learned one thing: terrorism is a complex problem. We’ve learned that a solution to terrorism that’s based exclusively in security considerations alone will not be effective. The underlying political and religious factors, and regional factors rather, leading to the support of recruitment into terrorism must also be addressed, the causes of conflict, the reasons behind the conflict must be addressed. A single response based on security alone, that is an important response, but based on that alone, it will not lead to success.

I endorse greatly the work in the last hour or so of the Secretary General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, [...] the United Nations programmes under what he calls the ‘Four D’s’ [...] against the terrorists to demonstrate the will of the people. Condemnation is important, but condemnation alone is not enough, we must move beyond condemnation to the kind of action that the Secretary General laid out, and I think his words this afternoon should be heeded at all of us at this very important conference on security in Madrid. Thank you Mr President.

Moderator
Thank you, and now I give the floor to the Attorney General Rafael Macedo de la Concha, from Mexico.


Rafael Macedo de la Concha
Muchas gracias, Sr. Presidente. Muy buenas tardes. Es para mi un alto honor asistir con la representación del Presidente de Méjico a esta importante reunión cumbre sobre democracia, seguridad y terrorismo, y reflexionar sobre dos aspectos de la escena internacional.

Primero hacer compatibles las necesidades de mas seguridad sin minar las libertades y el respeto a los derechos humanos, y segundo enfrentar la violencia que socava la gobernabilidad, siembra el miedo, entra en la población y toma víctimas inermes e inocentes, con las formidables armas que nos brinda la democracia. El debate el debate sobre el que debemos hacer frente a las organizaciones terroristas y la delincuencia organizada, ha reabierto un viejo y falso dilema entre seguridad y libertad. A menudo observamos, surgen voces que apuestan por implementar políticas de seguridad que conculquen libertades como la de expresión, las de tránsito, la de asociación o la de credo. Nuestra respuesta siempre deberá ser la que ofrezca más seguridad y legalidad, en el marco del estado de derecho y así no perder las libertades alcanzadas por la sociedad, con alternativas que no van al fondo de las causas que propician el surgimiento de grupos terroristas, como son los brutales contrastes sociales, políticos y culturales de nuestros días. Al inicio de este nuevo siglo, la tolerancia promotora de acuerdos, aún convive con el fanatismo que divide y confronta. Mientras en muchas partes del mundo hoy existen espacios para el pleno ejercicio de las libertades, en otras regiones la represión continua siendo practicada [...].

Por ello en Méjico, nuestro punto de partida ha sido la globalización de la democracia, con respeto a las identidades nacionales, con respeto a la evolución histórica y cultural de otros países, con respeto también a la autodeterminación de los pueblos y el respeto, por supuesto, a las posiciones de paz entre los pueblos, pero siempre con el firme propósito de promover la seguridad y el bienestar social.

Debemos llevar democracia, allí donde hoy gobierna el miedo, una democracia que vaya mas allá del ámbito electoral, una democracia participativa que se inscribe en el campo de la sociedad y que construye una sólida cultura cívica entre la población.

Esa es la tesis por la que Méjico viene avanzando y construyendo en los albores del nuevo milenio, una nueva cultura democrática, ya que sólo con ella seremos el país que anhelamos, mas justo y más seguro, más vigoroso en lo económico, más equitativo en lo social y más plural y participativo en lo político.

Jefes de Estado y de Gobierno, Ministro y Jefes de Delegación, cada uno de nosotros es portavoz de las convicciones libertarias de nuestros pueblos, de los pueblos del mundo. La agenda de Madrid será la respuesta democrática de todos a la violencia e intolerancia. Será una respuesta que reconozca en la expresión y fortaleza en democracia, el camino que nos permita superar los agudos contrastes que aun prevalecen entre las naciones. El mundo debe darle la oportunidad a todos de vivir en regímenes donde la ciudadanía deje de ser un concepto imaginario y vacío, para convertirse en una realidad tangible que salvaguarde su seguridad, libertades y democracia. La industria del terror es la industria de la cobardía que atenta contra víctimas inermes e inocentes. Su complejidad precisa de diversos enfoques de análisis y respuestas basadas en la cooperación nacional e internacional, fincada a su vez y sin duda alguna en el diálogo y en los principios del derecho. Trabajemos unidos para una gran operación internacional contra el terrorismo el camino que nos permita hacer del mundo un lugar más seguro con mejor futuro.

Muchas gracias.

Moderator
Thank you. I may give the floor now to the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Sher Afgan Khan Niazi from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Sher Afgan Khan Niazi
[...] Mr Chairman, the honourable moderator of [...], ladies and gentlemen… [...] in the international coalition of combating [...]… on counter terrorism and [...] Pakistan is a party to the OIC and [...] on combating international terrorism. It has also signed the additional protocol to the [...] convention. Pakistan has signed an extradition treaty with 27[?] countries. Over 650 terrorists have been deported and in cooperation with other [...] countries in this concern. Pakistan [...] … a polluting [...] and irritancy responsible for sectarian values and destruction of message of Islam. Pakistan has an active madrassa registration law and has brought all religious [...]. Pakistan has banned sectarian and jihadi organisations. Pakistan [...], who handle al-Qeada and other terrorists. Pakistan has an active law [...] against all kinds of terrorist activity and anti-money laundering law [...]. 70,000 troops are conducting extensive operations on the border of Afghanistan to eliminate the remnants of al-Qaida in the operations [...] have been captured and killed. Australian and [...] have been attacked and killed by the suicide bombers. [...] by the security forces of Pakistan. [...] elimination of terrorists in [...]. The UN must try [...] the lead role in the fight against terrorism to give international legitimacy to the effective [...] in combating terrorism. Pakistan [...] that it is not possible to fight [...] and all states to combat international terrorism. Pakistan consider [...] Mr President is very important [...], the international community will have to ensure the right of people to self-determination is not delegitimised by [...], [...] the two are clearly distinct an agreed definition of terrorism [...] very much of this political agenda. Thank you.

Moderator
Ladies and Gentlemen, we want to use this opportunity, on behalf of my own government, to join all of those speakers who have… the government of Finland, to join all those people who have expressed their condolences to the relatives and friends and families of the victims of the terrorist attack that took place here in Madrid. And express our solidarity to those who are still suffering from the injuries from that attack. We heard the Secretary General saying, not so long ago this afternoon, that terrorism is a threat for all of us, and I think that we have realised that it is, as the speakers have also emphasised the global approach and cooperation in our fight against terrorism.

I thank also the panellists for the exemplary behaviour. I must say that very seldom have I shared a group of distinguished personalities who have so obediently followed the guidelines given by the organisation. I thank you and I conclude the meeting. I think we have really explained [...] our deliberations. Thank you.

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